maradydd: (Default)
maradydd ([personal profile] maradydd) wrote2008-04-12 09:52 am

Six Misconceptions About Orphaned Works

My friends list today has been swept by a storm of fear, uncertainty and doubt surrounding this article by Mark Simon on Animation World Network about the issue of orphaned works. "Orphaned works" are creations likely still under copyright -- photographs, illustrations, written works, music, &c. -- for which the original creator cannot be found, and thus their copyright status cannot be determined. Orphaned works present a thorny problem in today's litigious society, because when the question of "who owns X?" can't be answered, very few people are willing to do anything with X if they fear that they'll be sued for it.

For instance, suppose that you have your parents' wedding album, and the photos in it are starting to fade. You go to a photo shop to get the pictures scanned and digitally retouched, so that you can save them on DVD to show your kids in ten years. However, the copyright on those photos belongs to the photographer, not you or your parents. The photo shop tells you that unless you can get permission from the copyright holder, they can't do anything with the photos. Do you know who your parents' wedding photographer was? Do they remember? What if the company the photographer worked for has since gone out of business, and nobody can track down the individual person who took the photos? The pictures are "orphaned works", and no one knows who owns the rights on them.

Or what if you're cleaning out your great-aunt's attic, and you find a box full of pictures of your town as it was 100 years ago? The local history museum would love to add them to its collection -- but it can't, unless you, your great-aunt, or somebody can track down the original photographer and secure his or her permission (or the photographer's estate's permission, if the photographer's dead) to donate the photos. (Copyright in the United States lasts for life of the creator plus 75 (EDIT: 70, for works created today, older works are weird, see here for details; thanks for the correction, internets) years, so chances are, even 100-year-old photos are still under copyright. Thank Disney for that one, guys.)

But Mark Simon apparently believes that enacting legislation to handle orphaned works in a way that protects people who legitimately try to find the original copyright holder, but can't, will lead to the effective invalidation of copyright on ALL UNREGISTERED ART EVERYWHERE OMGZ CALL OUT THE CAVALRY. His article, which I linked above, is miserably poorly researched, jumps to completely illogical conclusions, and, most retardedly of all, implores artists to letterbomb Congress in protest of proposed legislation which does not actually exist. Someone please tell me where this guy is getting the crack he's smoking, because I want to avoid that streetcorner and everything in a six-block radius, kthx.

So, here are six misconceptions that are making the rounds about orphaned works, and a short explanation of why each one is a misinterpretation or just a flat-out lie. I also give links to useful supporting material, and resources you can use to keep track of this issue as it evolves.

1. "There's legislation before Congress right now that will enact major changes in US copyright law regarding orphaned works! We have to act immediately!"

Actually, no, there isn't. Even the Illustrators Partnership admits this, so I don't know where Mark Simon gets this idea. There may very well be a bill introduced this legislative session, but no such bill has surfaced yet. That gives you, artists and authors, time to get familiar with the actual legislative landscape, research what might be proposed in a bill, and decide for yourself what position to take.

Back on March 13, Marybeth Peters, the Register of Copyrights, made a statement before the House Subcommittee on Courts, the Internet, and Intellectual Property. It discusses orphaned works in detail, and mentions previously proposed legislation that expired when the 2006 House session closed. It was never voted on.

I advise everyone to read Ms. Peters' statement. It's long, but it's in plain English. (Okay, she does like to use big words. But it's not legalese.) If you read it, you'll see that the Copyright Office is in fact concerned about how to handle orphaned works in a way that's fair to original copyright holders. I especially recommend you read the section titled "The Proposed Solution". Read it carefully. It's pretty clear that Mark Simon didn't.

If you want to keep an eye out for upcoming legislation that might affect this issue, THOMAS is a great place to start. I'm also a big fan of GovTrack, which scrapes THOMAS and sorts bills into categories based on topic -- you can even get RSS feeds of bills related to the topics of your choice.

2. "If I want the copyright on my art to be recognised, I'll have to pay to register each piece!"

That isn't the case now, and it isn't likely to be the case even if an orphan works bill passes. In current copyright law, copyright protection exists "from the time the work is created in fixed form" -- in other words, the instant I hit "post" on the form I'm typing this blog post in, the instant you step away from the canvas, the instant you hit "save" in Photoshop, that work is "in fixed form" and protected by copyright. This applies to all literary, musical, dramatic, choreographic, pictorial, graphic, sculptural, video, audiovisual, and architectural works, as well as sound recordings.

The Copyright Office considered the idea of a registry, but shot it down (emphasis mine):
In our study of the orphan works problem, the Office reviewed various suggestions from the copyright community. These included creating a new exception in Title 17, creating a government-managed compulsory license, and instituting a ceiling on available damages. We rejected all of these proposals in part for the same reasons: we did not wish to unduly prejudice the legitimate rights of a copyright owner by depriving him of the ability to assert infringement or hinder his ability to collect an award that reflects the true value of his work.
In the same paragraph, Ms. Peters also noted that the Copyright Office finds it important for any new legislation to cover both published and unpublished works. Existing copyright law, as we saw above, covers all works from the moment of their creation.

It is already possible to register a copyright with the US Copyright Office. It is not required, but registering a copyright gives you a few advantages in the event that someone illegally copies your work. If your copyright is not registered, you may claim "actual damages and profits" -- i.e., the value of the work. (I think this also means that you can recover whatever profits the infringer made by using your work illegally, but I'm not sure about that, and I'm not a lawyer, so don't quote me on that one.) If your copyright is registered, you may also claim statutory damages (between $750 and $30,000 per work -- up to $150,000 per work if you can demonstrate that the infringment was willful, i.e., the infringer knew the work was copyrighted but used it anyway) and attorney's fees -- in other words, if you win the case, the infringer has to pay your lawyer for you. (Whee!)

But, again, there is nothing that indicates that registration will be required. Either Mark Simon read Marybeth Peters' statement wrong, or he made it up.

3. "If I don't pay to register my copyright, anyone in the entire world will be able to use it for free!"

Nope. There is nothing on the table that suggests that the US will be pulling out of the Berne Convention, which is the international treaty which governs copyright provisions between countries. Marybeth Peters certainly isn't suggesting it.

Now, Mark Simon seems to be flipping his shit over Ms. Peters' recommendation of
a framework whereby a legitimate orphan works owner who resurfaces may bring an action for “reasonable compensation” against a qualifying user. A user does not qualify for the benefits of orphan works legislation unless he first conducts a good faith, reasonably diligent (but unsuccessful) search for the copyright owner.
Perhaps he's envisioning a scenario where a user spends five minutes googling, comes up with nothing, calls that a "good faith" search and forges ahead with an infringing use. That's not going to fly before the court; the user will have to detail how he conducted the search, and if the copyright owner can demonstrate that no, actually, it is quite easy to find the work's original owner, the "good faith" provision doesn't apply. And even if the "good faith" provision does apply, the Copyright Office recommends that the user should still have to compensate the owner for a reasonable amount.

It's all there in writing, folks. This isn't that hard.

Now, the Copyright Office also proposes a "safe harbor" provision for very specific cases:
a safe-harbor for certain limited uses performed without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage. The exception would apply only where the user ceased infringement expeditiously after receiving notice of a claim for infringement.
In other words, if someone infringes your work for nonprofit purposes and you pop up and say "um, no, that's mine," they must immediately take it down. Otherwise, the safe harbor provision does not apply, and they must compensate you for their use of the work. Furthermore, if they don't immediately take it down, they're also subject to the No Electronic Theft Act, which sets out the damages I described above and also establishes criminal penalties for copyright infringement, even when no money changes hands. Nobody is suggesting that the NET Act should go away either.

The basics are, well, pretty basic. An orphaned work is a work for which no legitimate rights-holder can be found. If the legitimate rights-holder resurfaces, it is not an orphaned work any more. Plain and simple.

4. "Someone else could register the copyright on my work, and use that against me!"

Nope. Under US copyright law, only the author of a work, a person or organization that has obtained ownership of all the rights under the copyright initially belonging to the author, the owner of exclusive rights (i.e., someone to whom you have transferred copyright under a "work for hire" agreement), or the duly authorized agent of one of the above may file for copyright registration.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak with any authority on what happens if somebody illegally registers a work for which they don't own the copyright. An illegally registered copyright will almost certainly have its registration revoked (freeing you up to register it yourself, if you so desire). The application form also states that "any person who knowingly makes a false representation of a material fact in the application for copyright registration .... shall be fined not more than $2500." Check out Title 17 of the United States Code, section 506(e) if you want to know more.

5. "If I don't track down people who are illegally using my copyrighted works, I'm SOL!"

Honestly? This is the state of things already. As I pointed out to [livejournal.com profile] karine, the Copyright Office does not employ an elite squad of cybercops searching night and day for infringing uses of copyrighted works. They don't have that kind of money. Identifying infringing uses, sending the infringer a takedown notice, and bringing legal action if the infringer refuses to stop infringing are already your problems. They will continue to be your problems for the foreseeable future.

I've also heard some FUD claiming that if someone infringes your copyright and you don't catch them within a certain period of time, you won't have any legal recourse. I have no idea where this misconception came from, but it's also wrong. The important thing to remember here is that copyright is not trademark. Trademarks can be lost if they're not enforced, but copyright is forever (ok, life plus 70). "Well, so-and-so infringed and you didn't sue them!" is not a legitimate defense. Neither is "I've been using this for the last N years and you never said anything!" If you catch someone infringing your copyright at any point in your life, or your estate catches them at any point up to 70 years after the date of your death, you do have legal protection.

6. "Displaying my artwork anywhere means that it automatically becomes orphaned, and anyone will be able to use it!"

This is quite possibly the most ludicrous claim that's being bandied about. According to the Copyright Office, public display of a work does not even constitute publication -- you have to sell copies, or tell other people they can distribute copies, in order for the work to be considered "published". (EDIT: what I tell you three times is true, I am not a lawyer. The Copyright Office's FAQ does not opine about content displayed on the Internet, but you're probably better off disallowing redistribution anyway if this is something you're concerned about.)

Furthermore, as we've discussed above, a work need not be registered with the Copyright Office, or with a private registrar, to be covered by copyright, so if someone infringes on your work and you send them a takedown notice, the work is not orphaned. Full stop. I cannot repeat this enough times.

Copyright is automatic and does not change unless you transfer your copyright to someone else, die (in which case it's automatically transferred to your estate), or commit the work to the public domain. "Orphanedness" is a state which gets removed when the copyright holder speaks up. Even placing a work under a distribution license, such as a Creative Commons license, doesn't change the fact that you own the copyright.

Also, for those of you considering formal registration with the Copyright Office to have the option of statutory damages, here's a neat loophole you can use. Unpublished works can be registered as a collection, as many works in the collection as you want, in a single filing, for one filing fee of $35. Since merely putting your artwork up for display on the Interwebs doesn't constitute "publication", you could register "All My Artwork From The Last Ten Years" as an unpublished collection for a whole $35, and sue the pants off anyone who infringes anything in that collection. (This would also be a fun way to test whether the Copyright Office considers works displayed on the net to be unpublished. If you try this out, do let me know!)

---

I hope this addresses any fears you might have about orphaned works and the sort of legislation that might come up regarding them. If you have any questions, please feel free to comment and I'll do my best to answer them. Likewise, please feel free to link this article or reproduce it in full or in part; I am placing it under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 United States license. Creative Commons License

[livejournal.com profile] kynn also has some cogent observations about orphaned works, Mark Simon, his sources, and some follow-the-money fun here.

[identity profile] ahoushi.livejournal.com 2008-04-13 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Bravo, well put.

[identity profile] crisper.livejournal.com 2008-04-13 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for being a well-assembled response to the hysteria that seems to be flying around all of a sudden. It took me all of two minutes to ask where the HR number of this supposed legislation was, at which point a few more minutes of research turned up Marybeth Peters (who must be the topical event that is triggering the current hysteria) and everything else fell into place (that is, apart.) You'd think people would develop better bullshit detectors on the Internet one of these days.

Off the wagon.

[identity profile] jersalyn.livejournal.com 2008-04-13 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
At first I didn't believe the posts then I got so many people tripping over themselves about this I started to think it was credible till I couldn't find anything official other then blog entries on it. Should have followed my instincts. Nice clarification.

[identity profile] sengir-assassin.livejournal.com 2008-04-13 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Haha. What a douche.

About your article

(Anonymous) 2008-04-13 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
You do argue a good point. If a artist does actually die, it does make sense that you should be able to use it if If you can't contact the owner of it at that time.

Although, I'm still a bit wary about others using your work without consent in this day and age. Internet is dangerous and posting YOUR PERSONAL ARTWORK shouldn't be used against you.

But thanks for your article about this. It doesn't seem so bad afterall.

[identity profile] tavella.livejournal.com 2008-04-13 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Or what if you're cleaning out your great-aunt's attic, and you find a box full of pictures of your town as it was 100 years ago? The local history museum would love to add them to its collection -- but it can't, unless you, your great-aunt, or somebody can track down the original photographer and secure his or her permission (or the photographer's estate's permission, if the photographer's dead) to donate the photos.

Unless the law has changed drastically while I wasn't looking, this isn't true. You are entirely free to donate the photos, and the library is entirely free to accept them and give people access to them. What the library can't do is say, put together a book including the photographs and publish it.

Now, your local history collection may choose not to accept items with such split rights, but that would be unusual, since it is a very typical situation for any research library. They regularly accept collections of letters, for example, where the original writer still holds copyright to the *content*, but the person donating holds rights to the physical object.

(Anonymous) 2008-04-13 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I think this will violate illustrators copyrights. It opens a loophole in the legal system for someone to use your work. Let's say if I created an illustration of some 'chick' and named it 'The Intervened Beauty', an illustration which is copyrighted upon creation and place it on the internet in some gallery with a proper (C) notice, someone might take that image, repost it with the cut out (C) notice for his 'personal use in mind', yet someone else might find this illustration, make a 'diligent search' for the copyright holder by typing 'pretty princess' in the search engines and perhaps browsing picscout to see if the image is copyrighted. With results coming in empty, unable to find the copyright owner, this will make the illustration an orphan to be used freely for commercial purposes.

Picscout has a 99% accuracy of finding match of the image, in it's registry database. What happens if you are the 1% (that's 10000 of a million)? Or if you don't have the cash to register every single photo, illustration, you ever created?

Currently there a millions of images on the net without a (C) notice attached to them.. Images that we don't use for commercial purposes because we presume they belong to someone with proper copyright. This 'Orphan Bill' will make all of these illustrations, photos, orphans to be used as pleased. Nonsense!!

Registries stand to make a killing on this.. I can just picture Getty Images and Corbis (Bill Gates) being involved in this.. Large corporations in the US seem to purchase laws to their liking..


Dear Meredith,

No offence, but if you'd be a dedicated or a professional illustrator you would have a much more profound understanding of this bill and it's consequences.

(Anonymous) 2008-04-13 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I also think this is somewhat important.. I can't picture anyone dragging someone to court just to receive $200 in damages over “innocent infringement”, and there will be a lot of “innocent infringements” after a "diligent, good faith search"!

"Some who oppose orphan works legislation have also objected to the removal of statutory damages, which are available under Title 17 in certain instances. A few have even asserted that statutory damages are an entitlement under the law that cannot be rescinded. We disagree. Statutory damages are an alternative means by which a copyright owner may recover against an infringer in lieu of proving actual damages and lost profits. However, they are only available if the owner has registered the work prior to the infringement or within three months of publication. (While it is possible that a registered work could be an orphan work within the proposed legislative framework, we think this is unlikely to be a common situation, not because the registration is guaranteed to be found, but because an owner who has taken steps to register his work has likely taken other steps to make himself available outside the registration system.) Statutory damages are not an absolute entitlement any more than copyright ownership itself is an absolute right. Just as there are exceptions to, and limitations on, the exclusive rights of copyright owners (for example, fair use), there are exceptions to statutory damage awards. In cases of “innocent infringement,” the court may reduce statutory damages to $200; for certain infringements by nonprofit educational institutions, libraries, archives and public broadcasters, the court may reduce the award to zero.3 The fact remains that the possibility of statutory damages, however remote, is the single biggest obstacle preventing use in orphan works situations. In cases of non-willful infringement, statutory damages may be as high as $30,000 for each infringed work. In cases of willful infringement, they may be as high as $150,000 per infringed work.

We are not suggesting, in general, that the scheme of statutory damages is unjust. On the contrary, statutory damages fulfill legitimate and necessary purposes. That said, we do believe that in the case of orphan works, the rationale for statutory damages is weak. By definition, in the orphan work situation, the user is acting in good faith and diligently searching for the owner, and the owner is absent. The purposes of statutory damages, i.e. making the owner's evidentiary burden lighter and deterring infringement, weigh less heavily here. If the copyright owner is not identifiable and cannot be located through a diligent, good faith search, we believe the appropriate recovery is reasonable compensation. If orphan works legislation does not remove statutory damages from the equation, it will not motivate users to go forward with important, productive uses. On the other hand, the prospect of orphan works legislation may motivate some owners to participate more actively in the copyright system by making themselves available."

Source - http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat031308.html

BS!

[identity profile] foresthouse.livejournal.com 2008-04-13 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey there - I found this post via [livejournal.com profile] cleolinda - this guy annoyed me so much I made a post of my own (http://foresthouse.livejournal.com/457847.html), in which I linked to this one. Just wanted to let you know!

Excellent write-up!

(Anonymous) 2008-04-13 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)
This is an excellent blog and explanation of the true state of affairs - thank you! (I was a bit chary when I saw the original article anyway, but it's good to have that clarified.)

Thanks!

(Anonymous) 2008-04-13 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for clearing this up for me =]

The first I heard of this was through Mark Simon's article, so I was pretty pissed.
I'm glad that he's just a wack-job and that this is pretty much harmless.

[identity profile] ex-ntproxy291.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
Its easy to get your balls in a knot over stuff like this, especially when the most vocal people about it are completely fanatical.

Good job clearing the issue up a bit.

[identity profile] 3-2-1-letsdance.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 02:41 am (UTC)(link)
Thankyou for clearing that whole thing up for me BEFORE I write to all my LJ and opendiary friends about it. (Yeah, you don't know me. This diary was linked to by deviantart)

But an even bigger thankyou for making me aware of the story Anthem. I've just finished reading it and it's now one of my favourites *__*

Hooray for RESEARCH!!!

(Anonymous) 2008-04-14 03:33 am (UTC)(link)
It's refreshing to see someone actually taking the time to not only be informed, but to inform others as to the realities of copyright. I would also like to point out that a lot of the FUD outlined in the article is perpetrated by organizations who have a vested interest in (i.e., they think they'll make money by) suing people for infringing use when what is actually happening was formerly fair use. These same organizations pay lobbyists to enact laws so that they can accomplish these things. It's ultimately about control, power, and money.

I would also like to point out that Mr. Simon seems to think a letter to Congress is the same as a bill. It's not. The letter that appeared on March 13 was intended to create almost precisely the FUD that Mr. Simon fell for.

Um... hard faith there

(Anonymous) 2008-04-14 03:35 am (UTC)(link)
"That isn't the case now, and it isn't likely to be the case even if an orphan works bill passes."

"Nope. There is nothing on the table that suggests that the US will be pulling out of the Berne Convention, which is the international treaty which governs copyright provisions between countries. Marybeth Peters certainly isn't suggesting it."

"Nope. Under US copyright law..."

-- Cogress has passed laws that are illegal, they can and will make and pass laws that will destroy personal rights.

I think you misunderstand what this bill is proposing to do. It will make anything anyone makes (from your family photos you post on Photobucket, to the stories you post on Fictionpress.com) automatically an Orphaned Work that anyone can make money off of.

Essentially, it says, "You are NOT PROTECTED unless you register." No, registery is NOT required, but basically that copyright that applies "the instant I hit "post" on the form I'm typing this blog post in, the instant you step away from the canvas, the instant you hit "save" in Photoshop, that work is "in fixed form"..." will NOT be protected unless you pay to have it registered for protection.

All those laws and copyright statements you posted will be ignored under this bill.

So how do you PROTECT anything you ever draw, write, or post? By registering through PRIVATE COMPANIES and putting your works into their databanks. Now, it isn't "the moment you step away from the canvis," or "the moment you hit the post button," replace those words with, "the moment you pay to register..."

I think what Brad Holland and Mark Simon are trying to explain is this example: Say simply a photo of your newborn baby. Somebody can find that photo and use it in a magazine and make hundreds of dollars off of it. Upon searching the databases of the PRIVATE COMPANIES, that picture may not be found, and it is near-impossible to find the picture. Then, the person can register it, gain the copyrights, and there isn't a bloody thing you can do about it.

Why? "Well, your picture isn't protected under you, its protected by so-and-so who actually registered it."

I can't imagine anything I write or post on the Internet suddenly requiring registration for protection. www.fictionpress.com has 328,000+ stories and 707,000+ poetry and I can't imagine all of them suddenly losing their copyright. There must be millions upon millions of photos and written peices that could suddenly be up for grabs by anyone with a good eye.

And we're not even talking about people who want their stories published either. I can't imagine having literary agents suddenly needing to add "will help you register your work for protection!" to their advertisements, or worse, "promises not to register your work for our protection!"

Um... hard faith there

(Anonymous) 2008-04-14 03:35 am (UTC)(link)
"That isn't the case now, and it isn't likely to be the case even if an orphan works bill passes."

"Nope. There is nothing on the table that suggests that the US will be pulling out of the Berne Convention, which is the international treaty which governs copyright provisions between countries. Marybeth Peters certainly isn't suggesting it."

"Nope. Under US copyright law..."

-- Cogress has passed laws that are illegal, they can and will make and pass laws that will destroy personal rights.

I think you misunderstand what this bill is proposing to do. It will make anything anyone makes (from your family photos you post on Photobucket, to the stories you post on Fictionpress.com) automatically an Orphaned Work that anyone can make money off of.

Essentially, it says, "You are NOT PROTECTED unless you register." No, registery is NOT required, but basically that copyright that applies "the instant I hit "post" on the form I'm typing this blog post in, the instant you step away from the canvas, the instant you hit "save" in Photoshop, that work is "in fixed form"..." will NOT be protected unless you pay to have it registered for protection.

All those laws and copyright statements you posted will be ignored under this bill.

So how do you PROTECT anything you ever draw, write, or post? By registering through PRIVATE COMPANIES and putting your works into their databanks. Now, it isn't "the moment you step away from the canvis," or "the moment you hit the post button," replace those words with, "the moment you pay to register..."

I think what Brad Holland and Mark Simon are trying to explain is this example: Say simply a photo of your newborn baby. Somebody can find that photo and use it in a magazine and make hundreds of dollars off of it. Upon searching the databases of the PRIVATE COMPANIES, that picture may not be found, and it is near-impossible to find the picture. Then, the person can register it, gain the copyrights, and there isn't a bloody thing you can do about it.

Why? "Well, your picture isn't protected under you, its protected by so-and-so who actually registered it."

I can't imagine anything I write or post on the Internet suddenly requiring registration for protection. www.fictionpress.com has 328,000+ stories and 707,000+ poetry and I can't imagine all of them suddenly losing their copyright. There must be millions upon millions of photos and written peices that could suddenly be up for grabs by anyone with a good eye.

And we're not even talking about people who want their stories published either. I can't imagine having literary agents suddenly needing to add "will help you register your work for protection!" to their advertisements, or worse, "promises not to register your work for our protection!"


-- Colonel Marksman

[identity profile] absurdnonsense.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 06:48 am (UTC)(link)
Thank God I found out about this. I was bursting mad, and I read your article and this link (http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat031308.html) you put up.

Thanks for getting the record straight. Now I'll do my part for the misinformed.

[identity profile] holyschist.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 06:54 am (UTC)(link)
Or what if you're cleaning out your great-aunt's attic, and you find a box full of pictures of your town as it was 100 years ago? The local history museum would love to add them to its collection -- but it can't, unless you, your great-aunt, or somebody can track down the original photographer and secure his or her permission (or the photographer's estate's permission, if the photographer's dead) to donate the photos.

Actually, you can own the photographs without owning the copyright (reproduction rights). So you can donate the pictures, but the museum cannot use them in exhibits, brochures, or books, or put them on its website, nor can anyone scan them into an online database. So it's still a huge complicated mess--Fair Use has traditionally allowed the use of orphaned photographs for limited purposes (e.g. exhibits) if an effort to find the original creator has been made and failed, but it's complicated and Fair Use is not very internet-friendly.

Note: I work in the museum field and have been to panels about this sort of thing, so I'm not pulling this out of thin air.

[identity profile] shiv5468.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 07:48 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you, thank you, for saving me from having to point this out.

It's practically a public service

sheesh

(Anonymous) 2008-04-14 11:08 am (UTC)(link)
this recently appeared in our forum, i posted a link from the forum to here. wanted to spread it around.

i didn't actually notice anything about it til it was posted on our forum, and, admittedly, i was torn on whether it was true or false. And if it was true, i would doubt it would, in the form i was first presented to me, ever pass. As first described it would have caused a lawsuit party with no end. And still I posted something semi-drama-ish and was worried. DUUURRR.

thnx. <3

O.o

(Anonymous) 2008-04-14 11:30 am (UTC)(link)
They can NOT pass that bill! If I have to build a barricade I will!

Thanks!

[identity profile] kinzokutaka.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 11:59 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you much for researching and posting about this.

Via Metafandom

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 01:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought the panic over this seemed a bit odd. Thanks for giving us some facts.

hum. still don't like the idea

(Anonymous) 2008-04-14 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, so, thanks for clearing out the obviously overdone panic. thought it sounded like a little too much. it does however not change my opinion. I know there is in fact no bill, and not really worth discussion - i just want to give my thought on it.

- As far as i gather the idea is to allow the use of work where the owner cannot be found, there has been an honest search for the owner and nothing more to be done. Once owner appears it is no longer orphaned. Maybe there were good intentions - i just disagree.

i don't regard any work as truly orphaned - there is an owner, you just don't know who it is. Whereas there may be instances where it is "impossible", or at least exceedingly hard, to find the creator/owner of, for example, an image you find online - it is still easily identifiable as "not yours to decide over". It is, unlike a human orphan, not neccessarily (with exception of, for example, old photographs) in need of your loving care to exist. A digital image definitely isn't.

not that it stops all those problems occurring anyway. already happening, just don't care to see part of it legal.

And it still seems highly exploitable to me (of course, i can't make a full judgement as there.... is no bill). just passing a few thoughts out. It just screams lawsuit party to me.
ext_28553: stirred (Default)

[identity profile] duniazade.livejournal.com 2008-04-14 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I have just discovered your blog via [livejournal.com profile] shiv5468, and I find it fascinating. May I friend you?

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