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Holy WTF, Batman?
Courtesy my old roommate, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
semanticdm05, terror in the heartland.
What blows my mind is not just the "hi, we're the DHS and we're walking into a small software business in Iowa and leaving with one of the employees" aspect of it, but the cavalier attitude ofsemanticdm05's remaining co-workers. What has to happen to a community in order for the general response for something like this to be "oh, well, if the feds were interested in him, he must've done something wrong?"
Bear in mind, folks, that unless I'm conflating two different people, Yassine Azizi is a guy who had a pretty normal life. He had a job and co-workers who liked him. He was the president of the student chapter of the IEEE. Google on his name, and that's all that comes up. (I thinksemanticdm05 misspelled his first name by one character.) When Jathan Desir was busted during Operation Fastlink two years ago, it made the news (and Slashdot). The fact that DHS can make arrests like this in broad daylight with no information made available -- and the fact that people react as if this is a common, everyday occurrence -- creeps me right the fuck out.
(I suppose the fact that I saw V for Vendetta last night withallonymist and enochsmiles isn't exactly helping matters, but still.)
semanticdm05, terror in the heartland.What blows my mind is not just the "hi, we're the DHS and we're walking into a small software business in Iowa and leaving with one of the employees" aspect of it, but the cavalier attitude of
semanticdm05's remaining co-workers. What has to happen to a community in order for the general response for something like this to be "oh, well, if the feds were interested in him, he must've done something wrong?"Bear in mind, folks, that unless I'm conflating two different people, Yassine Azizi is a guy who had a pretty normal life. He had a job and co-workers who liked him. He was the president of the student chapter of the IEEE. Google on his name, and that's all that comes up. (I think
semanticdm05 misspelled his first name by one character.) When Jathan Desir was busted during Operation Fastlink two years ago, it made the news (and Slashdot). The fact that DHS can make arrests like this in broad daylight with no information made available -- and the fact that people react as if this is a common, everyday occurrence -- creeps me right the fuck out.(I suppose the fact that I saw V for Vendetta last night with
allonymist and enochsmiles isn't exactly helping matters, but still.)
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Grrr. That's pretty creepy. Not surprising, but still horrifying.
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Here's something that happened at my office one day.
The cops came by and talked to our site security staff to locate an employee. He was off in a training class elsewhere on the campus, and they went and pulled him out of class and arrested him on the spot. Then they asked us to comply with confiscating his work computer. We weren't told jack about what was going on - not by police on the scene, not by company management, not by anyone.
The only reason we found out why he was arrested? Because it was important (or at least creepy) enough to make a local newspaper - he was accused of meeting with some local 14 and 15 year old girls, giving them alcohol, and then attempting to get frisky with them. If the girls he had been with were from actually in the city of Austin rather than off in a small town suburb, it probably wouldn't have made the paper at all (think of all the sexual offenders in the databases - now think of how many sexual offender arrests you hear about in your town. A significant portion aren't hitting papers) and we never would have really know what happened. We eventually got an official notice from the office that he was gone and wouldn't be returning, but nothing about why he was arrested or any such thing - in fact they specifically told us they wouldn't talk about it.
Of course, this was 1999, and people weren't paranoid that our government was a massive conspiracy. So of course most people had the attitude that "if the cops are interested in him...he must have done something." I don't think anything drastic has to happen for that attitude to remain - I think it's still the norm in our society. While I certainly agree that our government needs to be held accountable for it's actions both in general and in the specific, I have to say that I'm pretty sure we haven't reached the level of a Gestapo just yet.
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In part, yes. DHS has a shitty track record where civil rights are concerned (and I suppose one could get bogged down in the legal details of just what protections they're obligated to afford someone who's probably in the country on a student or work visa, but that's a side discussion), but I'd also be concerned about local law enforcement employing such tactics. Then again, I also spent the last five years in a town where every arrest, even for stuff like minors in possession of alcohol, ended up in the police blotter section of the newspaper. I like disclosure.
More than that, though, it bothers me that a guy's co-workers would react with complacence to his being arrested in the middle of the day, not even question what's going on, then just as casually expect that he wouldn't get his job back even if it turns out he's innocent. That sort of thing should not be normal.
I have to say that I'm pretty sure we haven't reached the level of a Gestapo just yet.
Where does that line get crossed? More importantly, though, what do you do once you realise "fuck, we've crossed it while I wasn't looking?"
I'd rather we never get close.
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Tell me that the top manager on site at the company had no idea what was happening and I'm a little more concerned. Tell me that a close friend has done everything they can to try to find out what he's been charged with - phone calls, physical visits to places, and so on - and *still* has no information on why he was arrested, and then I'm a lot more concerned. Tell me that a group of people that may not have even interacted with him outside the office have no idea where he is - well, let's just say that's not enough to get me to lead the revolution.
As to the attitude of the general public towards arrests of people, and a presumption of guilt - I think that's been a part of our society as long as I can remember (and I'm not THAT much older than you). It's not right, but I think it's important to remember that our justice system doesn't find people innocent - no one will prove he didn't do anything wrong. That's a big part of what leads people to believe that the accused are probably guilty. It's not fair, and it's not right, but I think that's a significant factor.
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Why?
Assume you hand over a computer to the cops voluntarily to help in an investigation. Legally, they can use *anything* they find in *any* criminal or civil proceedings - including against your company. If they have a warrant, the company is protected from anything someone might have left laying around.
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And it was pretty freaky being his cubemate as well.
Re: And it was pretty freaky being his cubemate as well.
Re: And it was pretty freaky being his cubemate as well.
(Anonymous) 2006-04-04 09:46 pm (UTC)(link)Re: And it was pretty freaky being his cubemate as well.
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